You're too kind Michael. I appreciate the support!

Great write up and such a cool looking place. I will admit the Wall of Fame really puts it over the top for me.

I think your central Q is about tournament/pro golf Conor? You do mention recreational golfers but seem to settle back on pro golf as your concern for your thoughts. FWIW I think it makes little difference to amateur golfers; after all the nines have been flipped on many courses, and routings altered over many decades. Portush now finishing on the old 16th is a much better finish than the old 18th, Augusta used to start on 10...and all of our home courses have been assuredly changed many times to the point where calling correct sequences of playing holes is a sort of moot point I think? Anyway maybe I coming down harshly on sequencing of holes as I'm in a vogue of starting on the 10th at Portmarnock recently, and dipping and diving across various holes on the three nines for whatever takes my fancy. I'm seeing golf and the playing field more and more as malleable and it seems to heighten my enjoyment. Re: pro golf- yes sure it might materially impact a player if they start on 10 on say Shinnecock and suck an approach down the hill and follow up that with a disaster at 11...but who is to say what they would have done on the handshake opener, and no 2 often plays as one of the hardest holes. I say all this to say there are so many variables in golf / tournament golf. I think other factors other than a 1/10 start hold far larger influence-the good side of a draw has often ruled half the field into a position of pure advantage at a British Open. But ultimately how the player deals with each of the 18 holes in isolation will govern their experience; bad swings can happen on easy holes. Once you've seen one tennis court you've seen them all...its great to be able to mix it up for the pampered pros and get them off a 10th start...now I wonder if there's any major venue with a flip wedge par 3 as a 10th hole, to a fiddly green. Would like to see that!

Great stuff, Matt! Your course profiling chops just keep getting better and better. The vocabulary you deploy in describing the courses adds to their sense of place, yet feels accessible to all readers regardless of where they might be on their journey into the golf architecture rabbit hole. Always an exciting day when a new Matt Rouches course profile drops. Keep up the excellent work!

I think about NWGC all the time. What a place!

Was out there last week, prior to the Fried Egg event at Prairie Dunes. Did the Wooga/Gunch combo. It's been 20yrs since I was out there and I still think WH has greens that stack up with the best in the country. [June 2025] They are building a small Par 3 course. The land sits between the right side of #10 and the driving range, down below the large practice putting green. The land has 30-40' of elevation change and good overall movement. The overall space looks to be about the same size as the adjacent driving range. They are still shaping the holes, and apparently haven't finalized how many holes they will have in total. I would have taken some pictures, but it's still in the very rough shaping stage, so without a drone it would be tough to get a sense of how holes are laid out. They are also building additional on-site lodging for anyone doing a stay-and-play.

Can you explain why bigger greens are better (than smaller greens). Said another way, why would bigger greens at Pebble Beach or Bethpage Black make these courses better. Should all greens have 4 different pin positions? With green speeds increasing, some areas on greens cannot have a pin position anymore (effectively reducing the size of the green). Does this mean that greens need to be "softened?" Is there a way to map greens so they can be softened yet maintain original design. Can you think of an instance where rough made a course better? When did rough start in golf course architecture?

Allegheny is great. Private golf in Pittsburgh is phenomenal and somehow underrated.

I’m glad others commented. I don’t have anything to add except to say that I greatly enjoyed this.

Andy, I heard you reference on this podcast visiting Rodeo Dunes. I was just out there to see it yesterday and was amazed by the landscape. Interested to hear more of your thoughts about it. Are you going to be putting out some content on it soon?