I agree wholeheartedly about the quality of the Red course at Bethpage. I also agree that there is no course in America as badly in need of a restoration as the Black,

PJ comin out swingin lol. It's cool getting your insight into the course as someone who grew up on Long Island and has played there before. The topic of rough length. I feel like if it's too high, it because a hack fest and players complain and it diminishes players second shot skill. If the rough is too low though, it could be said in some cases that it makes the course easier, but can show case creativity and second shot skill. So what is the ideal length of rough?

Why I love Iowa research. The DNR has historical aerials for every decade back to 1930s. Always makes me sad to look at Langfords Oneota. Beautiful 9er blown up to squeeze 18.

I think at this point you have to consult the historical aerials and look at whether/when any big routing changes occurred. It would be interesting to hear what James Duncan has to say on the subject. He's a super sharp guy, and it sounds like he'll have to make some tricky choices here. There's definitely a danger in being over-precise in architectural attribution. Listing every architect a club has employed doesn't always get you closer to the truth. Think of Inverness—the Fazios did work there in the 70s, but very few of the changes they made have survived Andrew Green's work. The course is now essentially a Donald Ross-Andrew Green collaboration. We list the Fazios on our course profile right now, but I don't think it's necessary to do so.

Thank god for limited Rees Jones work

Somerset is a true who knows because it says Raynor eith Stanley Thompson in 50s online. But head pro tild me: -1960s Robert Bruce Harris -1970s: George Cobb/Robert Trent Jones -1980s: Rees Jones (Very Minimal Work) -2000s: Stan Gentry And now JH Duncan. Too many cooks hah.

I don't know why this hadn't clicked for me before now, but the Tilly quote helped crystallize another benefit of diagonal hazards. We often talk about long hitters and short hitters, or skilled players and less-skilled players. The truth of course is that our ability is on a spectrum, and the diagonal hazard allows us to take on more and more risk as we improve, or forces us to swallow our ego and take on less as we age or lose our swing.

Not sure I would count what they said about Watson at WBYC a whisper lol I think where this gets interesting is in two ways: 1) Somerset is trying to restore back to Raynor design but it seems in the case of a few holes they are brand new it seems but Raynor templates. What to do then? 2) Interlachen had a massive renovation back to the Ross ideal, but it seems every green and bunker was replaced apparently in some cases to lengthen, other cases to modernize in other ways. So you get into a ship of theseus question quickly of is it still a Ross?

Thanks Garrett. How I'm trying to approach it now too. My beloved Waveland Muni in Des Moines has half a dozen people attached over last 125 years but primarily 2 guys are responsible as it sits. Initial "victorian" designer Dickinson and a passing by Bendalow get credit for what is no longer there. Coates and Packard FTW 😄.

That was a fun read! Can we get a deep dive into how and why the USA uniforms are so atrocious year after year? Is this some kind of inside joke by the PGA of America to see how long they can keep it going for?