I wanted to pop in and thank all of the FEGC members for their support over the years, many of you are among our earliest and biggest fans. We wouldn't have been able to do any of this without you and I am eternally grateful for you support.
I hadn't really thought much about the 10 years until yesterday afternoon when I sat down to write the newsletter and have been surprised at how many memories and emotions have flooded in. It has been a dream to build this company and community to the point we have today and I CANNOT wait for some of the projects we have been working on to come to light.
I'd love to hear your favorite memories and content from the past 10 years and things you would like us to explore the next 10 years if you have time or thoughts.
I wanted to pop in and thank all of the FEGC members for their support over the years, many of you are among our earliest and biggest fans. We wouldn't have been able to do any of this without you and I am eternally grateful for you support.
I hadn't really thought much about the 10 years until yesterday afternoon when I sat down to write the newsletter and have been surprised at how many memories and emotions have flooded in. It has been a dream to build this company and community to the point we have today and I CANNOT wait for some of the projects we have been working on to come to light.
I'd love to hear your favorite memories and content from the past 10 years and things you would like us to explore the next 10 years if you have time or thoughts.
Tom Doakchecked in from Punta Brava Golf Club in Baja California, where he is making his final construction visit. "The goal is to grass it before Christmas!" he wrote. "I took tons of photos yesterday — the place is spectacular — but photos can't really do justice to the scale of the mountain and the rocks offshore.... So, no more photos here. Honestly, I don't think you are ready for them."
Clayton, DeVries & Pont have been hired to consult at Appleby Golf Club, an 1883 moorland course designed by Willie Fernie in Cumbria, England.
Architect Thad Layton posted a very cool time-lapse reel of himself painting the fifth hole at English heathland gem West Sussex Golf Club. This is a talent/skill that baffles me. It's like magic.
Tom Doakchecked in from Punta Brava Golf Club in Baja California, where he is making his final construction visit. "The goal is to grass it before Christmas!" he wrote. "I took tons of photos yesterday — the place is spectacular — but photos can't really do justice to the scale of the mountain and the rocks offshore.... So, no more photos here. Honestly, I don't think you are ready for them."
Clayton, DeVries & Pont have been hired to consult at Appleby Golf Club, an 1883 moorland course designed by Willie Fernie in Cumbria, England.
Architect Thad Layton posted a very cool time-lapse reel of himself painting the fifth hole at English heathland gem West Sussex Golf Club. This is a talent/skill that baffles me. It's like magic.
Pinehurst Resortposted some photos of Coore & Crenshaw's in-progress design at Pinehurst No. 11, next door to Tom Doak's No. 10 course. The property — which contains remnants of an old sand mine as well as a few abandoned hole corridors from the Pit Golf Links — looks gnarly, knobbly, and unpredictable.
Will this be the most unconventional-looking course Coore & Crenshaw have designed since... I don't know, Talking Stick? We'll see.
One constant, however, is C&C's architectural philosophy. "We don't plan to move a lot of material," Ben Crenshaw said in an interview posted by the resort. "We very much like to let the holes and the land speak for themselves, and do little things."
Pinehurst Resortposted some photos of Coore & Crenshaw's in-progress design at Pinehurst No. 11, next door to Tom Doak's No. 10 course. The property — which contains remnants of an old sand mine as well as a few abandoned hole corridors from the Pit Golf Links — looks gnarly, knobbly, and unpredictable.
Will this be the most unconventional-looking course Coore & Crenshaw have designed since... I don't know, Talking Stick? We'll see.
One constant, however, is C&C's architectural philosophy. "We don't plan to move a lot of material," Ben Crenshaw said in an interview posted by the resort. "We very much like to let the holes and the land speak for themselves, and do little things."
First discussion topic and first post all baked into one! If Harris English is correct and the "new" PGA Tour will have open weeks/gap weeks, why not make Monday Qualifiers matter? Pre-1983 or so, there were only 60 exempt players and the rest had to either finish top-15 the week prior or Monday qualify. It wasn't for one or two spots, it was for many. If the new Tour will have off weeks before and after some, many or all of the PGA Tour events, why not make the week start on Monday with a robust Monday Qualifying event from which 20 or 30 or 40 players qualify? That could be a great kick-off to the week, especially if there isn't a tournament the week before. Thoughts?
First discussion topic and first post all baked into one! If Harris English is correct and the "new" PGA Tour will have open weeks/gap weeks, why not make Monday Qualifiers matter? Pre-1983 or so, there were only 60 exempt players and the rest had to either finish top-15 the week prior or Monday qualify. It wasn't for one or two spots, it was for many. If the new Tour will have off weeks before and after some, many or all of the PGA Tour events, why not make the week start on Monday with a robust Monday Qualifying event from which 20 or 30 or 40 players qualify? That could be a great kick-off to the week, especially if there isn't a tournament the week before. Thoughts?
I've booked a foursome for this Saturday at the par 3 course at Olympic if anyone is interested in joining. I think the guest fee is $45 and if you're a member just shoot me a note and I can update the tee time and add you.
If we get more than four people interested and have another member we can book multiple times.
The weather looks nice and mid-afternoon has been the most pleasant to be outside over the past week or so.
I've booked a foursome for this Saturday at the par 3 course at Olympic if anyone is interested in joining. I think the guest fee is $45 and if you're a member just shoot me a note and I can update the tee time and add you.
If we get more than four people interested and have another member we can book multiple times.
The weather looks nice and mid-afternoon has been the most pleasant to be outside over the past week or so.
This was a pleasant addition to my Wednesday routine last summer but seemed like a short lived experiment. Are there planes (or even an opportunity) to do it again?
This was a pleasant addition to my Wednesday routine last summer but seemed like a short lived experiment. Are there planes (or even an opportunity) to do it again?
Doing a wishlist secret santa with my family this year so I needed to put in some gifts I would wish for. Got me thinking what gift ideas do you have or want as a golf nut / architecture nerd?
Doing a wishlist secret santa with my family this year so I needed to put in some gifts I would wish for. Got me thinking what gift ideas do you have or want as a golf nut / architecture nerd?
Thoroughly enjoyed the SGS nostalgia trip of early life beverage choices. Keystone, Natty, Smirnoff - these are the universal experiences that will bring our society together.
Thoroughly enjoyed the SGS nostalgia trip of early life beverage choices. Keystone, Natty, Smirnoff - these are the universal experiences that will bring our society together.
The family had gone to bed last night, and I found myself with a quiet house. Having not seen much of Royal Melbourne ever, I was excited to turn on the television and watch a bit of the tournament.
what I was treated to was roughly an hour of guys putting. That’s it. Putts. A few bunker shots. Then miraculously there was a digital flyover of a hole after about 45 minutes, and someone hit an approach shot. And then right back to putting.
i’m curious if anyone else has watched the coverage and seen something better. I was disappointed to say the least.
The family had gone to bed last night, and I found myself with a quiet house. Having not seen much of Royal Melbourne ever, I was excited to turn on the television and watch a bit of the tournament.
what I was treated to was roughly an hour of guys putting. That’s it. Putts. A few bunker shots. Then miraculously there was a digital flyover of a hole after about 45 minutes, and someone hit an approach shot. And then right back to putting.
i’m curious if anyone else has watched the coverage and seen something better. I was disappointed to say the least.
40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Thanks David. Feel like I heard about it in the fall. Followed all social accounts which announced application dates for December. Then simply submitted my 4 some (believe required so have your people on notice) during the couple day window and kept fingers crossed.
Had essentially 4 month turnaround then. Booked flights and airbnbs within 1st week of being drawn. They give you a couple weeks to get organized before paying and then provide your tee times and exact dates. After those 3 major things taken care of it was sporadic dinner reservations, wives massage bookings, etc. We also did 6 days in Edinburgh and a 1 day highlands bus to appease wives. Snuck an early round at Braid Hills which was awesome. I'm a bit of a planner and love the research and doing things ourselves.
2nd time playing TOC regular and it certainly helped. The more times around the more you "get it". 1st time I played pretty decent and had some birdies, which is why I went hickories this time. Totally different experience thinking about more of the bunkers and being forced into the ground game at times. Also the 1st tee last time I probably had a 150 heart rate. Was a lot calmer this time and enjoyed seeing my 2 buddies who hadnt played it before freaking out with nervous energy. Both shipped it into the burn 😅
Crazy Idea For Funding The Construction Of Affordable Public Golf
Apr 25
I think the major challenge is about continuing capital costs. Essentially the founders provide your starting costs and the only guaranteed money you have. From there you effectively would be using all your other daily fees to pay your expenses. Does that give you enough of a float to run things?
Guests half price cuts some of that amount a bit further, as does the 3% cap. I think it’s noble and admire the idea. But in financially tough times, I think there are a handful of boxes this framework creates that would be hard to get out of or involve some painful conversations with members that walk them back.
That’s awesome Mike! When did you hear about the lottery and how much time did you have to plan to get over there? How many times have you played the Old and do you think that amount (or any prior experience) makes a difference in your enjoyment?
Would love to hear your 10-round split among Ross courses given how diverse they are in location and character. For legacy has any architect had a bigger impact on Midwest? (Oakland Hills South, Inverness, Scioto, Interlachen, Franklin Hills, great Chicago catalog, dude was a Problem)
Branching off the Bruce Hepner discussion on economical design, does Ross' municipal work provide any architectural best practices for economic design in the muni setting? I live 5 minutes Rackham GC and am biased but would love to see a big ticket renovation of that course given the large swath of Detroit it services.
I had a couple of thoughts based on Justin's great question before me.
I think Augusta's best feature (or at least the best feature that is still with us today) is its routing. I'd like to hear thoughts specifically on how the routing may be different had Ross gotten the job at ANGC.
Mackenzie also used focal points in his routing to bunch up various features - the clubhouse hill that houses 1 and 10s tee as well as 9 and 18s green; the area with 3 and 8s tee and 7, 2, and 17s greens; and the section with 6, 15, and 16s greens just to name a few. Are there any specific land features out there you think Mackenzie passed on that Ross would have used as focal points? Any greensites that you think Ross would have gone for that Mackenzie didn't choose to build on?
I think this was a part of the Fried Egg's Cypress Point video, but someone said that the claim that Raynor did the most important work at Cypress because he is responsible for the routing isn't fair. Mackenzie would have certainly chose to build a similar routing. Is ANGC the same way? Is the land so extreme that there was only one way to really route that course, is Amen Corner too perfect of place for those holes, or do you think Ross's routing would have been different? Would love to just hear any thoughts y'all have on how Ross may have used the land at ANGC.
I had a couple of thoughts based on Justin's great question before me.
I think Augusta's best feature (or at least the best feature that is still with us today) is its routing. I'd like to hear thoughts on how the routing may be different had Ross gotten the job at ANGC.
Mackenzie also used focal points in his routing to bunch up various features - the clubhouse hill that houses 1 and 10s tee as well as 9 and 18s green; the area with 3 and 8s tee and 7, 2, and 17s greens; and the section with 6, 15, and 16s greens just to name a few. Are there any specific land features out there you think Mackenzie passed on that Ross would have used as focal points? Any greensites that you think Ross would have gone for that Mackenzie didn't choose to build on?
I think this was a part of the Fried Egg's Cypress Point video, but someone said that the claim that Raynor did the most important work at Cypress because it was routing isn't fair. Mackenzie would have certainly chose to build a similar routing. Is ANGC the same way? Is the land so extreme that there was only one way to really route that course or do you think Ross's routing would have been different? Would love to just hear any thoughts y'all have on how Ross may have used the land at ANGC.
A follow-up. We know Donny didn’t see every site he built a golf course on. Are there characteristics of the courses he visited that are not present in the sites he did not visit? In other ways, is there a way to tell if he was present during the build or not.
If you were blindfolded and led onto an anonymous golf course, what elements - routing, hazard placement, green shapes - would tell you it's a Ross design?
Does Ross have any template holes he returned to?
