Pinehurst Resortposted some photos of Coore & Crenshaw's in-progress design at Pinehurst No. 11, next door to Tom Doak's No. 10 course. The property — which contains remnants of an old sand mine as well as a few abandoned hole corridors from the Pit Golf Links — looks gnarly, knobbly, and unpredictable.
Will this be the most unconventional-looking course Coore & Crenshaw have designed since... I don't know, Talking Stick? We'll see.
One constant, however, is C&C's architectural philosophy. "We don't plan to move a lot of material," Ben Crenshaw said in an interview posted by the resort. "We very much like to let the holes and the land speak for themselves, and do little things."
Pinehurst Resortposted some photos of Coore & Crenshaw's in-progress design at Pinehurst No. 11, next door to Tom Doak's No. 10 course. The property — which contains remnants of an old sand mine as well as a few abandoned hole corridors from the Pit Golf Links — looks gnarly, knobbly, and unpredictable.
Will this be the most unconventional-looking course Coore & Crenshaw have designed since... I don't know, Talking Stick? We'll see.
One constant, however, is C&C's architectural philosophy. "We don't plan to move a lot of material," Ben Crenshaw said in an interview posted by the resort. "We very much like to let the holes and the land speak for themselves, and do little things."
First discussion topic and first post all baked into one! If Harris English is correct and the "new" PGA Tour will have open weeks/gap weeks, why not make Monday Qualifiers matter? Pre-1983 or so, there were only 60 exempt players and the rest had to either finish top-15 the week prior or Monday qualify. It wasn't for one or two spots, it was for many. If the new Tour will have off weeks before and after some, many or all of the PGA Tour events, why not make the week start on Monday with a robust Monday Qualifying event from which 20 or 30 or 40 players qualify? That could be a great kick-off to the week, especially if there isn't a tournament the week before. Thoughts?
First discussion topic and first post all baked into one! If Harris English is correct and the "new" PGA Tour will have open weeks/gap weeks, why not make Monday Qualifiers matter? Pre-1983 or so, there were only 60 exempt players and the rest had to either finish top-15 the week prior or Monday qualify. It wasn't for one or two spots, it was for many. If the new Tour will have off weeks before and after some, many or all of the PGA Tour events, why not make the week start on Monday with a robust Monday Qualifying event from which 20 or 30 or 40 players qualify? That could be a great kick-off to the week, especially if there isn't a tournament the week before. Thoughts?
I've booked a foursome for this Saturday at the par 3 course at Olympic if anyone is interested in joining. I think the guest fee is $45 and if you're a member just shoot me a note and I can update the tee time and add you.
If we get more than four people interested and have another member we can book multiple times.
The weather looks nice and mid-afternoon has been the most pleasant to be outside over the past week or so.
I've booked a foursome for this Saturday at the par 3 course at Olympic if anyone is interested in joining. I think the guest fee is $45 and if you're a member just shoot me a note and I can update the tee time and add you.
If we get more than four people interested and have another member we can book multiple times.
The weather looks nice and mid-afternoon has been the most pleasant to be outside over the past week or so.
This was a pleasant addition to my Wednesday routine last summer but seemed like a short lived experiment. Are there planes (or even an opportunity) to do it again?
This was a pleasant addition to my Wednesday routine last summer but seemed like a short lived experiment. Are there planes (or even an opportunity) to do it again?
Doing a wishlist secret santa with my family this year so I needed to put in some gifts I would wish for. Got me thinking what gift ideas do you have or want as a golf nut / architecture nerd?
Doing a wishlist secret santa with my family this year so I needed to put in some gifts I would wish for. Got me thinking what gift ideas do you have or want as a golf nut / architecture nerd?
Thoroughly enjoyed the SGS nostalgia trip of early life beverage choices. Keystone, Natty, Smirnoff - these are the universal experiences that will bring our society together.
Thoroughly enjoyed the SGS nostalgia trip of early life beverage choices. Keystone, Natty, Smirnoff - these are the universal experiences that will bring our society together.
The family had gone to bed last night, and I found myself with a quiet house. Having not seen much of Royal Melbourne ever, I was excited to turn on the television and watch a bit of the tournament.
what I was treated to was roughly an hour of guys putting. That’s it. Putts. A few bunker shots. Then miraculously there was a digital flyover of a hole after about 45 minutes, and someone hit an approach shot. And then right back to putting.
i’m curious if anyone else has watched the coverage and seen something better. I was disappointed to say the least.
The family had gone to bed last night, and I found myself with a quiet house. Having not seen much of Royal Melbourne ever, I was excited to turn on the television and watch a bit of the tournament.
what I was treated to was roughly an hour of guys putting. That’s it. Putts. A few bunker shots. Then miraculously there was a digital flyover of a hole after about 45 minutes, and someone hit an approach shot. And then right back to putting.
i’m curious if anyone else has watched the coverage and seen something better. I was disappointed to say the least.
40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Hey everyone. I thought it would be good to get this going for the NYC area. Always down to get out for a round and occasionally hit the sim in the winter. 31 married w/ no kids
Hey everyone. I thought it would be good to get this going for the NYC area. Always down to get out for a round and occasionally hit the sim in the winter. 31 married w/ no kids
Interested to see what Gil brings to the screen golf. I've only played two of Gil's courses, Sewanee and Mossy Oak, but like everyone, I've seen my fair share on TV and social media. Gil usually brings restraint and simplicity to his courses, with an emphasis on green complexes and their surroundings. Not exactly something you can implement in TGL.
Side note, is this a sign of things to come for a working partnership with the PGA Tour? I'd love to see Gil get his hands on a course or two. I know TGL and the Tour are separate, but in partnership with one another. One can dream.
Interested to see what Gil brings to the screen golf. I've only played two of Gil's courses, Sewanee and Mossy Oak, but like everyone, I've seen my fair share on TV and social media. Gil usually brings restraint and simplicity to his courses, with an emphasis on green complexes and their surroundings. Not exactly something you can implement in TGL.
Side note, is this a sign of things to come for a working partnership with the PGA Tour? I'd love to see Gil get his hands on a course or two. I know TGL and the Tour are separate, but in partnership with one another. One can dream.
I love sand based turf as much as everyone and understand the agronomy benefits. Who doesn't love blowouts and open/isolated spaces. That being said I kind of wish there would be a few new parkland style courses. Ones not suffocated by trees and housing, not restorations doing a bunch of removal, and not perimeter tree lined places where the trees don't really come into play. Would be interesting to see one of todays top teams have to route the land and trees without bulldozing the lot.
Maybe there are such places that have been built and I'm just not aware of them. (I know Sedge was kind of done this way but is still sand with no trees in play)
I love sand based turf as much as everyone and understand the agronomy benefits. Who doesn't love blowouts and open/isolated spaces. That being said I kind of wish there would be a few new parkland style courses. Ones not suffocated by trees and housing, not restorations doing a bunch of removal, and not perimeter tree lined places where the trees don't really come into play. Would be interesting to see one of todays top teams have to route the land and trees without bulldozing the lot.
Maybe there are such places that have been built and I'm just not aware of them. (I know Sedge was kind of done this way but is still sand with no trees in play)
Some additional food options:
Breakfast in TC
- Frenchie's (small cramped dining, amazing brunch)
- Bubba's (lots of seating, great worse for the wear food)
- Sugar 2 Salt (near the GT commons)
- The Dandy (right downtown, not the best options for kids menu)
- Sisters (just across the street from Modern Bird)
- Red Spire (in the historic GT commons)
- Chez Amie (reimagined Patisserie Amie in the Warehouse MRKT)
- Potter's (local donut shop)
Lunch in TC
- Chef's Inn (sandwich shop connected to Burrit's Fresh Market for wine, speciality meat, and seafood)
- Chubby Unicorn (sandwich shop in downtown across from Little Fleet food trucks)
- Oakwood Proper (smashed burger shop near the base of the peninsula)
- Glendale Burger Shop (right near M-72 and M-22 intersection on west side of TC, easy if heading to / coming from Leelanau)
Dinner in TC
- Mama Lou's (mexican in downtown)
- Filling Station (brewery + pizza + dog friendly near boardman lake)
- Charles & Reid (detroit style pizza in downtown)
- Forrest, A Food Studio (two person operation with 24 seats, prepared menu, table reservations open the first of the month for the next month and go quickly)
Bars in TC
- Workshop (warehouse mrkt district downtown)
- U & I (local dive bar)
- 7 monks taproom (downtown)
- Low Bar (dark quiet lounge below 7 Monks)
Dessert in TC
- Buchan's Ice Cream (just west of TC near Glendale Burgers)
- Moomer's (just West of TC)
- Dairy Lodge (cash only*)
- Bardon's (base of peninsula near Oakwood Proper)
Leelanau County Spots:
- Art's Tavern (Glen Arbor - cash only*, B/L/D, famous chicken jalapeño soup on Wednesday)
- The Mill (Glen Arbor - dinner spot in renovated mill right on the river)
- Wren (Sutton's Bay - downtown dinner in Sutton's Bay)
- The Tribune (Northport - brunch)
I volunteered at Gaston CC as a walking scorer and it was one of the coolest things I have done in golf.
Joseph Bramlett was in my group and he was still very much in contention on the final 9. Watching him grind away up close was amazing. He got it up and down from everywhere but unfortunately was undone by a late bogey and missed birdie putt.
I would strongly recommend to the Coop that if you get a chance to volunteer at an event like this, please do it. What a great day. And, it reminds me of just how good these guys are - they play a different game than we do!
P.S. Chesson Hadley was also in the group, but quit after 9. He asked to see the live scoring and realized it was not going to happen.
Ha, I made the same comment to my two fellow architecture-enthused friends who were out there with me, but they were hearing none of it. I think playing it into a three-club wind made trying to be that precise a bit too much of an ask.
Same when I was there, although funny enough I think that made it a better hole. Laying back and left made it a blind approach and pushing it up right gave you a look at the green
Lowering expectations has helped me. I played in 3 tournaments last year. I felt very prepared and focused going into two of them and before the other I could hardly play due to a minor neck strain and work. I shot 80 in the two and 69 & won that I didn’t prep for. I’m sure it won’t always work that way either but it’s easy to overthink things and think that you need to do all the right things or make the time. I’m trying to be less stressed about it and see how that goes. I also think of the most nervous Or disastrous golf situation I’ve been in. The most nervous being the 1st tee shot at the Old course I hit right down the middle. The most disastrous being a tournament when I was 15 where I shanked the first tee shot OB, popped up my provisional into the water, dropped made 9. Topped my next tee ball into the water and walked off. My dad was watching from the car off the road and was already in the parking lot when I walked in utterly disappointed that I quit. Can’t get much worse than that!
Lowering expectations has helped me. I played in 3 tournaments last year. I felt very prepared and focused going into two of them and before the other I could hardly play due to a minor neck strain and work. I shot 80 in the two and 69 in the woke I didn’t prep for. I’m sure it won’t always work that way either but it’s easy to overthink things and think that you need to do all the right things or make the time. I’m trying to be less stressed about it and see how that goes. I also think of the lost nervous Or disastrous golf situation I’ve been in. The most nervous being the 1st tee shot at the Old course I hit right down the middle. The most disastrous being a torment when I was 15 where I shanked the first tee shot OB, popped up my provisional into the water, dropped made 9. Topped my next tee ball into the water and walked off. My dad was watching from the car off the road and was already in the parking lot when I walked in utterly disappointed that I quit. Can’t get much worse than that!
Yes, it was! 17 also used to have some more menacing bunkers and mounds dividing the fairway almost like a “hells half acre” which was strongly linked to Pine Valley.
Cherry Hills a great finish 14-18. But the overall course doesn’t represent all the wonderful championships it has hosted. I am a Colorado native who believes that Ballyneal is our finest course.
I'm jealous! I had some fun playing partners, but I definitely wished throughout the round I could drop balls and hit different shots. Nonetheless, what a freaking round. I strongly believe it's going to shoot up rankings and establish itself on the shortlist of best public courses in the US.
Cody -- I'll second Will and Beau with all things Napa/Calistoga.
Now I will offer a few Course things I'd recommend:
- You're covered for the day of golf, so if you are an absolute sicko, bank on a few extra holes after your lunch to mess around with the firm turf without worrying about score and try some different versions of approach shots (aka try a putt from ~80 yards out, putt from off the green with your 3-wood, use some hickories if you got them! etc...)
My favorite sub 18 hole loops are:
- 3 hole loop: 1, 17 -- tee off from the fairway (make it a long par 3) , 18
- 4 hole loop: 1 - 2, 17- 18 (just have to walk back to 17 after 2 on the dirt road that connects them )
- 7 Holes (My Favorite); 1-3 , 15 - 18
- 10 holes: 1- 5, 14 - 18 (Most of the time this is too much for me unless I'm there all day)
- If your caddy has been there for a while, some topics you can ask about while on course:
- The sheep
- The turf and rough that is being experimented with.
- Jame's Duncans bunker (off the right of 4 tee)
- Who shaped each green (Coore, Crenshaw, James Duncan, etc.)
- The Abner/Duncan play on 11. (Deep cut here -- may not get an answer on this one)
- Current Course record (and the match it was part of)
You simply can’t translate the score you shoot in an official tournament round vs a casual round. As you mention - these are two separate things! My suggestion is to take a hard look at what shots gave you the most grief during your tournament as well as which shots made you most nervous. These shots should be your go-to points of practice.
Interesting that you describe the 17th as a Road Hole homage. Around the green, yes (although a pretty poor homage), but the tee shot is actually a more challenging version of 16 on the Old, because the option of a bail out left doesn’t really exist. Standing on that tee with a decent medal card going and the wind into off the left is no fun at all!
Well put. Played it in April also and we had the same conversation, "why isn't this talked about more?" Used hickories which made it less of a driver wedge. Caddy rumors that they may take 2 holes from Strath to correct that shitty corner. Im sure Mackenzie and Ebert will come in and make it worse somehow.
That first green stuck with me as much as any other on my entire visit to the region. At least it looks like they cut down the rushes from the pond on 14/15. When I played there last summer, it was completely overgrown with 6-7' rushes that you couldn't even see over.
