Garrett Morrison
Uh... did I have an opinion I didn't know about? 😂
Link to commentDaniel Brubaker
Thanks Matthew! The lines on a few of the holes are linear mounding and cop bunkers, commonly found at Old Barnwell (most notably on the 1st hole there). Although disliked by those who don't like some of the more unique Victorian-era features (sorry Garrett…I think they will be making a comeback here very soon)…I think they are fantastic for lands with minimal elevation change. Love the comments and would love to hear more input!
Link to commentMatthew Schoolfield
I have a one questions right out of the gate: what are the black bars that cross many sections of the fairway?
I think there are some really good changes here, especially the added width on 15, which makes the strategy there even more interesting! I do have some concerns, like the 11th tee where it now seems advantageous to play over the 1st green and onto the 2nd fairway to approach 11th green, but perhaps I don't really understand the way the course is set up.
Unfortunately, without understanding the green contours, I can't really understand whether some of the minimalist changes will challenge players. However, it does look much, much cleaner and more deliberate than the existing site, which seems very overly bunkered to the point of exasperation. I mean, just looking at the current version of #2 makes me understand why you wanted to rework the design. It is obscenely penal, to the point where you wonder if they designer is trying to make it unfun on purpose.
Definitely a worthwhile endeavor.
Link to commentMichael Cramer
Hi Kevin, definitely try to play Francis Byrn if you are in the area. I've lived in NYC for several years and regrettably had not played it until after the FEGC event at Essex County Country Club (which is just up the hill from Francis Byrn). Since last August I have played there 7 or 8 times and would definitely put it as the best value course and maybe the best public course in the greater NY metro area. Some really good Raynor templates, good land movement, and offers some great strategic challenge and fun. I've also been pretty impressed with the condition - greens tend to be a little on the slower side but that's a trade off for a busy municipal course with interesting greens I'll take it. I believe $65 is the peak non-resident rate so it's my easy number 1 - the only caveat is that you may find getting a tee time very challenging especially if you are looking for a morning or weekend.
Rock Spring also has some fun holes, a few decent templates, and it does have a couple of nice skyline views of Manhattan, but on the whole, I don't find it quite as interesting as Byrn (especially around the greens). Playing there a half dozen times over the past two years I also have found of the course to play really soft (most of these rounds have been spring or late fall though). As mentioned, they use dynamic pricing so you may find a little more availability with tee times; however, I think they are charging around $200 for prime tee-times.
Hendricks, I have only played once. It's a good local course and if you are wanting to play in that immediate area and can't play the others it's a fine option, but not necessarily one I would go out of my way to play.
One last tip, especially for Francis Byrn - if you are struggling for a tee time, check back the day prior for an earlier tee time as they tend to get some cancelations especially for 1-2 players.
Link to commentDan Griffith
There is a map of the MacRaynor course in Daniel Wexler's book, Missing Links. He also includes a 1938 aerial where some of the abandoned holes (including the Short and Biarritz) are clearly visible, with the highway expansion cutting through them. Judging from the map, I think Bahto was being overly generous when he refers to those holes (other than 3 and 7) as being "retained." They did keep many of the old hole names when Flynn redesigned the course, though.
1 and 9 do roughly follow the old hole corridors of holes 1 and 18, respectively.
2 I don't see at all. The modern 2nd green sits vaguely in the same area as the MacDonald 12th green, which was a par 5.
8 appears to sit on more or less that same land as the old 15th, but, again, it looks to me like Flynn just built an entirely new hole. I can try posting a picture on the app (the book has long been out of print, as far as I know).
Link to commentMatt Collings
The caddie I had when playing the course helpfully told me “don’t hit it in the water” just before my shot when I had about 150y to the pin, I hadn’t even noticed the pond. Does seem very out of place!
Link to commentEthan Bollom
Keller Golf Course, Pioneer Creek or Chaska Town
Link to commentMichael Chadwick
The Explore the Course feature is great!
Flynn was such a master. We're fortunate to have Shinnecock and Merion, but I can only imagine what he could've done if he'd been given a couple more top-tier sites for original designs.
Link to commentPearce Barringer
I was just about to say, would be a good idea to throw this up on the meetup page in the app.
Link to commentAndrew Schaefer
Question about the pond on the 6th hole. Do you know why it was incorporated when it seem a little bit out of place given that water isn't featured anywhere else and it doesn't seem to be in play?
Link to commentMike Ihm
Had this question too. We have 2 relatively untouched Willie Dunn Jrs in Iowa and was curious how different todays course it routed. Because I think our 2 in Iowa while basic have great routings.
Link to commentMichael DeWitt
I played Rock Spring in 2023 ahead of the Yale Fried Egg event and I really enjoyed the course. A little scruffier than some of the other Raynors I’ve seen, but there were a lot of interesting templates and the routing’s utilization of the land forms kept things interesting and asked varying questions from an execution standpoint.
I’d definitely play it again if I was in the area, but the Francis Byrne interested me as well so I think you have solid options no matter what you decide.
Have a great trip!
Link to commentMatthew Schoolfield
Excited about the groups! Should be a great place to meet all the weirds foursomes fans like myself.
Link to commentTimothy Debruyne
Hey Kevin - I'm a former Essex County resident and still get back a few times a year visiting family. Francis Byrne and Hendricks are both county courses that have been renovated in the last few years. Rock Spring is a former private course, now owned by the local town. In terms of architecture, I think I'd probably rank them 1. Rock Spring, 2. Francis Byrne and then Hendricks a distant third. Rock Spring had a dynamic pricing model as of last year but I'd imagine the rate at Byrne or Rock Spring is about the same for out of town/county residents. Conditions are probably best at Rock Spring, then Byrne then Hendricks.
Link to comment