40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Hey everyone. I thought it would be good to get this going for the NYC area. Always down to get out for a round and occasionally hit the sim in the winter. 31 married w/ no kids
Hey everyone. I thought it would be good to get this going for the NYC area. Always down to get out for a round and occasionally hit the sim in the winter. 31 married w/ no kids
Interested to see what Gil brings to the screen golf. I've only played two of Gil's courses, Sewanee and Mossy Oak, but like everyone, I've seen my fair share on TV and social media. Gil usually brings restraint and simplicity to his courses, with an emphasis on green complexes and their surroundings. Not exactly something you can implement in TGL.
Side note, is this a sign of things to come for a working partnership with the PGA Tour? I'd love to see Gil get his hands on a course or two. I know TGL and the Tour are separate, but in partnership with one another. One can dream.
Interested to see what Gil brings to the screen golf. I've only played two of Gil's courses, Sewanee and Mossy Oak, but like everyone, I've seen my fair share on TV and social media. Gil usually brings restraint and simplicity to his courses, with an emphasis on green complexes and their surroundings. Not exactly something you can implement in TGL.
Side note, is this a sign of things to come for a working partnership with the PGA Tour? I'd love to see Gil get his hands on a course or two. I know TGL and the Tour are separate, but in partnership with one another. One can dream.
I love sand based turf as much as everyone and understand the agronomy benefits. Who doesn't love blowouts and open/isolated spaces. That being said I kind of wish there would be a few new parkland style courses. Ones not suffocated by trees and housing, not restorations doing a bunch of removal, and not perimeter tree lined places where the trees don't really come into play. Would be interesting to see one of todays top teams have to route the land and trees without bulldozing the lot.
Maybe there are such places that have been built and I'm just not aware of them. (I know Sedge was kind of done this way but is still sand with no trees in play)
I love sand based turf as much as everyone and understand the agronomy benefits. Who doesn't love blowouts and open/isolated spaces. That being said I kind of wish there would be a few new parkland style courses. Ones not suffocated by trees and housing, not restorations doing a bunch of removal, and not perimeter tree lined places where the trees don't really come into play. Would be interesting to see one of todays top teams have to route the land and trees without bulldozing the lot.
Maybe there are such places that have been built and I'm just not aware of them. (I know Sedge was kind of done this way but is still sand with no trees in play)
A tradition here at Fried Egg Golf, we posted this year's Content Cornucopia this week, a collection of our favorite pieces of content from others in the industry. Of course, we can only fit so much in there. What else would you all add to the list?
A tradition here at Fried Egg Golf, we posted this year's Content Cornucopia this week, a collection of our favorite pieces of content from others in the industry. Of course, we can only fit so much in there. What else would you all add to the list?
Have the thought of going to a resort outside of London with my family. Would require a high end resort for my family. I dream of playing a round of golf in the morning while my family lounges around the resort and then going to a show in the west end in the evening. Is there such a place that is close enough to the city?
Have the thought of going to a resort outside of London with my family. Would require a high end resort for my family. I dream of playing a round of golf in the morning while my family lounges around the resort and then going to a show in the west end in the evening. Is there such a place that is close enough to the city?
Planning a trip to Cabot Citrus Farms in March. Anyone have a suggestion for a course near the PIE airport where we can play after a 12:30 arrival and get the round in before dark?
Planning a trip to Cabot Citrus Farms in March. Anyone have a suggestion for a course near the PIE airport where we can play after a 12:30 arrival and get the round in before dark?
I'm jazzed that I'm getting to play Landmand in Homer, NE in July. Have any of you folks played this season? What are your impressions?
I found the Egg article from 2023 and I THINK I recall it coming up on the pod, but I would love to hear anyone's thoughts...especially after it's had a season to grow in a bit.
I'm jazzed that I'm getting to play Landmand in Homer, NE in July. Have any of you folks played this season? What are your impressions?
I found the Egg article from 2023 and I THINK I recall it coming up on the pod, but I would love to hear anyone's thoughts...especially after it's had a season to grow in a bit.
I wanted to offer a sincere thanks for a wonderful year, even though it's not quite over yet. I started at Fried Egg Golf last October and, while very excited, was a little unsure what I was stepping into. What I've found has blown me away, and I wanted to share a little gratitude for that.
Everyone I work with is sincere, passionate, and curious—I cannot tell you how much that matters on a daily basis. And on the flip side, everyone I've met who is a member of FEGC has been a delight. It's so fun to have a job where people are excited about what you're doing because it truly brings them happiness. To that end, I wanted to recap a fun year and preview what could be in the future.
This year we built and launched some really fun features:
A new website (that came along with a very fun process of membership and content migration—thanks to all who patiently stuck with us through a few bumps in the road)
Major hubs to elevate our coverage of the year's most exciting events
A member clubhouse to house member articles and a feed of comments
A community forum that has allowed members to chat more freely amongst themselves
I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but when I list them off, I'm pretty happy with the year we've had. Andy and I talk about our product a lot, and one thing we continually focus on is the process. Obviously the output matters, but we remain steadfast in our commitment to continually improve and deliver new and exciting features.
Looking ahead, I'm so excited for what 2026 will bring. It feels like the possibilities are almost endless. From my point of view, I continue to focus on how we can make your days just a little bit brighter by injecting some fun and insightful commentary into your lives (thankfully we have a world-class team of writers, podcasters, video producers, and social media savants to do the real work). To that end, we sincerely focus on bringing a true and earnest point of view and experience that we hope is unique and fresh. In addition to this, I've been so inspired by the community and fun I've witnessed at our events. Will does a tremendous job planning and hosting, and one thing I would like to do is capture a bit more of that magic in our membership's digital community. Obviously we have our forum, but I hope to make some additional strides in this area. Areas that I hope we can improve are our members ability to discover fun and interesting new places to play based on other members’ recommendations as well as continuing to help our members meet, connect, and play together.
If you ever have feedback, please share it with me. I sincerely want to know what we can do to make your golf more enjoyable.
To wrap this up, I want to reiterate how grateful I am for all of you. You truly allow us (and me) to do something we love. Cheers to a happy and safe holiday season!
I wanted to offer a sincere thanks for a wonderful year, even though it's not quite over yet. I started at Fried Egg Golf last October and, while very excited, was a little unsure what I was stepping into. What I've found has blown me away, and I wanted to share a little gratitude for that.
Everyone I work with is sincere, passionate, and curious—I cannot tell you how much that matters on a daily basis. And on the flip side, everyone I've met who is a member of FEGC has been a delight. It's so fun to have a job where people are excited about what you're doing because it truly brings them happiness. To that end, I wanted to recap a fun year and preview what could be in the future.
This year we built and launched some really fun features:
A new website (that came along with a very fun process of membership and content migration—thanks to all who patiently stuck with us through a few bumps in the road)
Major hubs to elevate our coverage of the year's most exciting events
A member clubhouse to house member articles and a feed of comments
A community forum that has allowed members to chat more freely amongst themselves
I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but when I list them off, I'm pretty happy with the year we've had. Andy and I talk about our product a lot, and one thing we continually focus on is the process. Obviously the output matters, but we remain steadfast in our commitment to continually improve and deliver new and exciting features.
Looking ahead, I'm so excited for what 2026 will bring. It feels like the possibilities are almost endless. From my point of view, I continue to focus on how we can make your days just a little bit brighter by injecting some fun and insightful commentary into your lives (thankfully we have a world-class team of writers, podcasters, video producers, and social media savants to do the real work). To that end, we sincerely focus on bringing a true and earnest point of view and experience that we hope is unique and fresh. In addition to this, I've been so inspired by the community and fun I've witnessed at our events. Will does a tremendous job planning and hosting, and one thing I would like to do is capture a bit more of that magic in our membership's digital community. Obviously we have our forum, but I hope to make some additional strides in this area. Areas that I hope we can improve are our members ability to discover fun and interesting new places to play based on other members’ recommendations as well as continuing to help our members meet, connect, and play together.
If you ever have feedback, please share it with me. I sincerely want to know what we can do to make your golf more enjoyable.
To wrap this up, I want to reiterate how grateful I am for all of you. You truly allow us (and me) to do something we love. Cheers to a happy and safe holiday season!
Howdy folks. One of the goals of our community is to get members together on golf courses, enjoying each other's company and exploring new courses or revisiting tried-and-true favorites. To that end, I've created a new forum topic dedicated to housing playing opportunities: Filling Foursomes. We will greatly improve the process of posting playing opportunities and finding partners in our product over the long haul, but for now I hope this minimal change can help bring a little structure to the forum if you're trying to find a game.
As for posting in Filling Foursomes, please just be clear about when and where the tee time is and if there are any booking considerations (e.g., cancellations within 24 hours may incur a fee from the course). Additionally, I believe that everyone in our community always has the best intentions, but I'll state the obvious: this is not a place to resell or mark up tee times for a profit.
Howdy folks. One of the goals of our community is to get members together on golf courses, enjoying each other's company and exploring new courses or revisiting tried-and-true favorites. To that end, I've created a new forum topic dedicated to housing playing opportunities: Filling Foursomes. We will greatly improve the process of posting playing opportunities and finding partners in our product over the long haul, but for now I hope this minimal change can help bring a little structure to the forum if you're trying to find a game.
As for posting in Filling Foursomes, please just be clear about when and where the tee time is and if there are any booking considerations (e.g., cancellations within 24 hours may incur a fee from the course). Additionally, I believe that everyone in our community always has the best intentions, but I'll state the obvious: this is not a place to resell or mark up tee times for a profit.
Candyroot Lodge, a new public golf facility in the sand hills outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, marked the end of its first week of construction with an Instagram post. Mike Koprowski, who collaborated with Kyle Franz at Broomsedge Golf Club and joined Andy Johnson on the Fried Egg Golf Podcast last year, is designing Candyroot's first course.
Initially, Koprowski was engaged by Candyroot's owners to build a single course, tentatively named Downbonnie. Since announcing that venture in May, however, the owners have brought on additional investors and developed bigger ambitions. Koprowski now tells me that Candyroot will feature multiple regulation layouts (three or four), plus a short course. An architect has not yet been selected for the second course, but interviews are ongoing.
If Candyroot Lodge follows through on its plans, it would be one of the largest and most exciting public-golf projects of the 2020s undertaken by developers not named Keiser.
Candyroot Lodge, a new public golf facility in the sand hills outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, marked the end of its first week of construction with an Instagram post. Mike Koprowski, who collaborated with Kyle Franz at Broomsedge Golf Club and joined Andy Johnson on the Fried Egg Golf Podcast last year, is designing Candyroot's first course.
Initially, Koprowski was engaged by Candyroot's owners to build a single course, tentatively named Downbonnie. Since announcing that venture in May, however, the owners have brought on additional investors and developed bigger ambitions. Koprowski now tells me that Candyroot will feature multiple regulation layouts (three or four), plus a short course. An architect has not yet been selected for the second course, but interviews are ongoing.
If Candyroot Lodge follows through on its plans, it would be one of the largest and most exciting public-golf projects of the 2020s undertaken by developers not named Keiser.
Here are three recently announced renovation projects that caught my eye:
Todd Eckenrodeis restoringWilliam P. Bell's mid-1920s design at Annandale Golf Club in Pasadena, California. Annandale has good potential (the historical aerials are tantalizing, but sadly not much can be done to bring back the property's former vistas and openness), and Eckenrode knows Bell and California Golden Age architecture as well as anyone in the industry. This is a project to track.
Trey Kemp, a very capable Dallas-based golf architect, has started the first phase of his master plan for Hogan Park Golf Course, a 36-hole municipal facility in Midland, Texas. Hogan Park is an important hub of the game in the growing but somewhat golf-poor Midland-Odessa region. Over the past decade, Kemp has developed a specialty in reviving municipal courses in Texas. His work at Stevens Park and Rockwood Park in the Dallas-Fort Worth area has been especially well received.
Architect Nick Campanelli and influential golf writer Bradley Klein have been engaged to renovate Willie Park Jr.'s design at Shuttle Meadow Country Club outside of Hartford, Connecticut. Campanelli and Klein plan to adapt some ideas from Huntercombe Golf Club, Park's strange masterwork in the English heathlands. Golf Course Architecture has a thorough writeup on the project.
Here are three recently announced renovation projects that caught my eye:
Todd Eckenrodeis restoringWilliam P. Bell's mid-1920s design at Annandale Golf Club in Pasadena, California. Annandale has good potential (the historical aerials are tantalizing, but sadly not much can be done to bring back the property's former vistas and openness), and Eckenrode knows Bell and California Golden Age architecture as well as anyone in the industry. This is a project to track.
Trey Kemp, a very capable Dallas-based golf architect, has started the first phase of his master plan for Hogan Park Golf Course, a 36-hole municipal facility in Midland, Texas. Hogan Park is an important hub of the game in the growing but somewhat golf-poor Midland-Odessa region. Over the past decade, Kemp has developed a specialty in reviving municipal courses in Texas. His work at Stevens Park and Rockwood Park in the Dallas-Fort Worth area has been especially well received.
Architect Nick Campanelli and influential golf writer Bradley Klein have been engaged to renovate Willie Park Jr.'s design at Shuttle Meadow Country Club outside of Hartford, Connecticut. Campanelli and Klein plan to adapt some ideas from Huntercombe Golf Club, Park's strange masterwork in the English heathlands. Golf Course Architecture has a thorough writeup on the project.
I commented on this post and now I don’t see it.
Sergio Garcia’s 6 iron on 16 at the 1999 PGA Championship at Medinah is the answer to this question. Watch the video. It’s insane.
I played Flint Hills when I flew in to go to Prairie Dunes. I enjoyed it, single bag caddies, which is a plus. It’s a Fazio and you won’t confuse it with a golden age design, but it’s pretty solid.
Brooks Koepka's final round albatross at the 2018 PLAYERS, he was making a run but maybe he wasn't close enough to winning to count in this scenario. However, it was an amazing shot and one I still think about from time to time.
The one that has to be mentioned is Sergio’s 6 iron on 16 at the 1999 PGA at Medinah. I am definitely dating myself with this one, but that was Sergio’s coming out party and that shot was FILTHY.
Golf is tough, because so many people hit incredible shots that just disappear into the void after the tournament if the lose. Cam Young's eagle on 18 at the Old Course in 2022, Rory's bunker shot that went in on 18 at Augusta in at the 2022 Masters, and Rory's eagle putts in the 2018 and 2025 Open Championships.
Your mentioning of Justin Thomas reminded me of his eagle hole-out on 18 at Chapultepec, which looked like it sealed the deal, only for Phil (!) to run him down and win in a playoff.
Thanks for flagging the show - will definitely have to check him out! And that sounds great - I’ll plan to reach out then. I don’t think we have Portsea on the list, fair to say I should look into switching things around to get it added?
Yea, of course! Always happy to hash it out on golf topics. My only connection to the TPC network is through Harding Park that is managed by PGA TOUR Golf Course Properties (to the best of my knowledge), so definitely flubbed that one, but I feel like you took my point fairly, which I appreciate.
Well, good thing Tour players don't chase angles anyway, as well all know ;)
Man do I wish I could go back and see how Salinda hit that shot. I am confident he used the slope at the back of the green to funnel it back towards the left side, which is pretty courageous given the OB just a few steps behind the green. Would be cool to see!
And yes, even this (admittedly cherry-picked) example of an angle mattering is probably overstated. I too wish it mattered more than it probably does. Perhaps it would in a non-Fargiveness universe.
Re: the soft conditions, I should add, not only was there a slow spring and heavy rain on Wednesday, the first three rounds were windless and very humid - a terrible combination if you like seeing the ball move on the ground. People who have spent time in Ontario know that June has these bizarre days where, somehow, it's cold and muggy at the same time. Our old head pro moved here from British Columbia and would constantly complain about it. The reason I bring that up is, not only does make for soft conditions, it makes the turf itself almost sticky. I am hopeful we don't get that again for at least one round this year, which I think would make for a much more proper evaluation.
Fair points, and I can't argue with your perspectives and tastes. I appreciate the thoughtful reply. A couple of points to push back on, though!
> It's very obvious that most people don't want a course to be one that PGA Tour players like
- Perhaps to members of this forum, and I'd certainly say so for myself, but I'm not sure about the broader golf public. It's worth considering that TPC Toronto is the only publicly-accessible course to host the Canadian Open in the Glen Abbey era. That is a key strategic consideration for us - it means we can offer something that no one else in the market can. It also meant that we needed to produce a course that the Tour would be comfortable returning to again and again.
> any venue that is operated by the Tournament Players Club will likely not be one preferred by golf enthusiasts.
- TPC Toronto is not owned and operated by the TPC Network; it's family-owned and has a licensing agreement to use the TPC brand. When Osprey Valley joined the network in 2018, it was very poorly known by even golf enthusiasts in the Toronto area, and it was a strategic move to break through to the public golf market - one I'd argue has been extremely successful (though I can't and not trying to take credit for it). That certainly doesn't invalidate your point, but I feel compelled to point it out because it's not like we're *only* trying to create a course with the Tour player in mind. We're just trying to create the best public golf experience we can. Regardless, I find the line of critique compelling, because threading the needle between 'TPC course designed to host a tour event' and 'interesting golf at a multi-course resort' is not an easy task! It makes for interesting questions. Would we have been better off going in a different direction than the TPC Network, say by imitating the branding and style of other multi-course resorts? If I put my Director of Marketing hat on, I'd have a hard time making that case, but it's nonetheless an interesting one.
Thanks again. This discussion has been very fun!
Fair points, and I can't argue with your perspectives and tastes. I appreciate the thoughtful reply. A couple of points to push back on, though!
> It's very obvious that most people don't want a course to be one that PGA Tour players like
- Perhaps to members of this forum, and I'd certainly say so for myself, but I'm not sure about the broader golf public. It's worth considering that TPC Toronto is the only publicly-accessible course to host the Canadian Open in the Glen Abbey era. That is a key strategic consideration for us - it means we can offer something that no one else in the market can. It also meant that we needed to produce a course that the Tour would be comfortable returning to again and again.
> any venue that is operated by the Tournament Players Club will likely not be one preferred by golf enthusiasts.
- TPC Toronto is not owned and operated by the TPC Network; it's family-owned and has a licensing agreement to use the TPC brand. When Osprey Valley joined the network in 2018, it was very poorly known by even golf enthusiasts in the Toronto area, and it was a strategic move to break through to the public golf market - one I'd argue has been extremely successful (though I can't and not trying to take credit for it). That certainly doesn't invalidate your point, but I feel compelled to point it out because it's not like we're trying to create a course with the Tour player in mind. We're just trying to create the best public golf experience we can. Regardless, I find the line of critique compelling, because threading the needle between 'TPC course designed to host a tour event' and 'interesting golf at a multi-course resort' is not an easy task! It makes for interesting questions. Would we have been better off going in a different direction than the TPC Network, say by imitating the branding and style of other multi-course resorts? If I put my Director of Marketing hat on, I'd have a hard time making that case, but it's nonetheless an interesting one.
Thanks again. This discussion has been very fun!
Fair points, and I can't argue with your perspectives and tastes. I appreciate the thoughtful reply. A couple of points to push back on, though!
> It's very obvious that most people don't want a course to be one that PGA Tour players like
- Perhaps to members of this forum, and I'd certainly say so for myself, but I'm not sure about the broader golf public. It's worth considering that TPC Toronto is the only publicly-accessible course to host the Canadian Open in the Glen Abbey era. That is a key strategic consideration for us - it means we can offer something that no one else in the market can. It also meant that we needed to produce a course that the Tour would be comfortable returning to again and again.
> any venue that is operated by the Tournament Players Club will likely not be one preferred by golf enthusiasts.
- TPC Toronto is not owned and operated by the TPC Network; it's family-owned and has a licensing agreement to use the TPC brand. When Osprey Valley joined the network in 2018, it was very poorly known by even golf enthusiasts in the Toronto area, and it was a strategic move to break through to the public golf market - one I'd argue has been extremely successful (though I can't and not trying to take credit for it). That certainly doesn't invalidate your point, but I feel compelled to point it out because outside of one week a year, it's not like we operate the course with creating a 'fair, Tour player-focused' course in mind. We're just trying to create the best public golf experience we can. Regardless, I find the line of critique compelling, because threading the needle between 'TPC course designed to host a tour event' and 'interesting golf at a multi-course resort' is not an easy task! It makes for interesting questions. Would we have been better off going in a different direction than the TPC Network, say by imitating the branding and style of other multi-course resorts? If I put my Director of Marketing hat on, I'd have a hard time making that case, but it's nonetheless an interesting one.
Thanks again. This discussion has been very fun!
