Pinehurst Resortposted some photos of Coore & Crenshaw's in-progress design at Pinehurst No. 11, next door to Tom Doak's No. 10 course. The property — which contains remnants of an old sand mine as well as a few abandoned hole corridors from the Pit Golf Links — looks gnarly, knobbly, and unpredictable.
Will this be the most unconventional-looking course Coore & Crenshaw have designed since... I don't know, Talking Stick? We'll see.
One constant, however, is C&C's architectural philosophy. "We don't plan to move a lot of material," Ben Crenshaw said in an interview posted by the resort. "We very much like to let the holes and the land speak for themselves, and do little things."
Pinehurst Resortposted some photos of Coore & Crenshaw's in-progress design at Pinehurst No. 11, next door to Tom Doak's No. 10 course. The property — which contains remnants of an old sand mine as well as a few abandoned hole corridors from the Pit Golf Links — looks gnarly, knobbly, and unpredictable.
Will this be the most unconventional-looking course Coore & Crenshaw have designed since... I don't know, Talking Stick? We'll see.
One constant, however, is C&C's architectural philosophy. "We don't plan to move a lot of material," Ben Crenshaw said in an interview posted by the resort. "We very much like to let the holes and the land speak for themselves, and do little things."
First discussion topic and first post all baked into one! If Harris English is correct and the "new" PGA Tour will have open weeks/gap weeks, why not make Monday Qualifiers matter? Pre-1983 or so, there were only 60 exempt players and the rest had to either finish top-15 the week prior or Monday qualify. It wasn't for one or two spots, it was for many. If the new Tour will have off weeks before and after some, many or all of the PGA Tour events, why not make the week start on Monday with a robust Monday Qualifying event from which 20 or 30 or 40 players qualify? That could be a great kick-off to the week, especially if there isn't a tournament the week before. Thoughts?
First discussion topic and first post all baked into one! If Harris English is correct and the "new" PGA Tour will have open weeks/gap weeks, why not make Monday Qualifiers matter? Pre-1983 or so, there were only 60 exempt players and the rest had to either finish top-15 the week prior or Monday qualify. It wasn't for one or two spots, it was for many. If the new Tour will have off weeks before and after some, many or all of the PGA Tour events, why not make the week start on Monday with a robust Monday Qualifying event from which 20 or 30 or 40 players qualify? That could be a great kick-off to the week, especially if there isn't a tournament the week before. Thoughts?
I've booked a foursome for this Saturday at the par 3 course at Olympic if anyone is interested in joining. I think the guest fee is $45 and if you're a member just shoot me a note and I can update the tee time and add you.
If we get more than four people interested and have another member we can book multiple times.
The weather looks nice and mid-afternoon has been the most pleasant to be outside over the past week or so.
I've booked a foursome for this Saturday at the par 3 course at Olympic if anyone is interested in joining. I think the guest fee is $45 and if you're a member just shoot me a note and I can update the tee time and add you.
If we get more than four people interested and have another member we can book multiple times.
The weather looks nice and mid-afternoon has been the most pleasant to be outside over the past week or so.
This was a pleasant addition to my Wednesday routine last summer but seemed like a short lived experiment. Are there planes (or even an opportunity) to do it again?
This was a pleasant addition to my Wednesday routine last summer but seemed like a short lived experiment. Are there planes (or even an opportunity) to do it again?
Doing a wishlist secret santa with my family this year so I needed to put in some gifts I would wish for. Got me thinking what gift ideas do you have or want as a golf nut / architecture nerd?
Doing a wishlist secret santa with my family this year so I needed to put in some gifts I would wish for. Got me thinking what gift ideas do you have or want as a golf nut / architecture nerd?
Thoroughly enjoyed the SGS nostalgia trip of early life beverage choices. Keystone, Natty, Smirnoff - these are the universal experiences that will bring our society together.
Thoroughly enjoyed the SGS nostalgia trip of early life beverage choices. Keystone, Natty, Smirnoff - these are the universal experiences that will bring our society together.
The family had gone to bed last night, and I found myself with a quiet house. Having not seen much of Royal Melbourne ever, I was excited to turn on the television and watch a bit of the tournament.
what I was treated to was roughly an hour of guys putting. That’s it. Putts. A few bunker shots. Then miraculously there was a digital flyover of a hole after about 45 minutes, and someone hit an approach shot. And then right back to putting.
i’m curious if anyone else has watched the coverage and seen something better. I was disappointed to say the least.
The family had gone to bed last night, and I found myself with a quiet house. Having not seen much of Royal Melbourne ever, I was excited to turn on the television and watch a bit of the tournament.
what I was treated to was roughly an hour of guys putting. That’s it. Putts. A few bunker shots. Then miraculously there was a digital flyover of a hole after about 45 minutes, and someone hit an approach shot. And then right back to putting.
i’m curious if anyone else has watched the coverage and seen something better. I was disappointed to say the least.
40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
40 y/o, married with kids, no interest in fighting!
I'll be in the Sarasota area over the holidays (week in between Christmas and New Years) on a family vacation and I'm looking to sneak out for a round or two. Any recommendations in the area? I'm looking at public courses, but I'm a member at a club in Chicago so any private courses that are accessible with the old pro phone call approach are also a possibility (have had mixed success with that in the past).
I'm looking for a fun and playable vacation round - I don't really care about conditioning or non-golf course amenities. University Park and the Ross course at Bobby Jones were the options that seemed to pop up most via google.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
We pushed out a few forum updates today and hopefully you've already noticed but if you haven't:
We added the comments feed that has historically lived in the Clubhouse to the homepage of the Forum. (note: we have not finished this update for mobile yet but should have it done in the next day or so at the most)
We added a new Sort By options for posts. If you'd like to sort posts by the ones with the most recent comments you can do so by opening the dropdown near the search bar in the forum home page and selecting the option for Recent Activity. This will sort order posts based on the timestamp of their most recent comment (sorted newest to oldest).
We're almost done with Post and Topic following. If you click on a specific post now you'll see a + FOLLOW button in the upper right hand corner of the page. Clicking this will subscribe you to email updates of comments made to that post. Topic following will follow shortly. Additionally, there was a small bug in this feature this morning that should be remedied but if you follow and don't get emails know that we'll squash the bug in short order.
Aside from that, I'll most likely make a change to the Clubhouse later today to make it more focused on members-only articles and course profiles and remove the thread of comments as they now live on the forum home page. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Cheers!
P.S. We're still working on many other forum enhancements (most notably being able to add images to comments) but as always I'm happy to hear any and all feedback.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Yesterday, as FEGC member Pearce Barringer noted in his own forum post, TGL announced that architect Gil Hanse had joined the screen-golf league's roster of hole designers. Accompanying the announcement was an awkward, faintly surreal video of a bemused Hanse making a WWE-like entrance into an empty SoFi Center. I'd love to hear the instructions the director of this piece of content gave him before hitting record.
TGL also unveiled one of Hanse's designs, a 590-yard par 5 called "Stone & Steeple." The hole features a few recognizable Hanse motifs: a threatening boundary wall, a lone bunker guarding the second-shot layup zone, and a rambling "Sahara" bunker, strewn with turf islands, cutting across the fairway. The neighboring graveyard even has precedent in Hanse's body of work: in his renovation of Waverley Country Club in Portland, Oregon, he moved the second green about 50 yards back so that it abutted a 19th-century cemetery.
The most striking aspect of Hanse's design is the double diagonal formed by the two sections of fairway on either side of the Sahara bunker. The basic idea, I gather, is that the farther players hit their drives without carrying the bunker, the more to the right they will end up, and the worse their angle into the green will be. On the other hand, if they want to make the long carry over the bunker on the left side and earn a shorter second shot from a better angle, they will need to bring the wall into play.
Classic strategic-school stuff, in other words. I think I'd enjoy playing this hole, if it were real. And you know what? It basically looks real. And that might be a problem.
So far, the reception of "Stone & Steeple" on social media has been chilly. There seems to be an emerging consensus among TGL viewers that the virtual-hole designs, unconstrained as they are by physical and economic realities, should be crazier, more video game-like, more purely inventive. As my colleague Joseph LaMagna put it on X, "TGL's biggest whiff is designing realistic holes. It makes zero sense to play holes like [Hanse's] in the one arena that's free from practical constraints."
That's probably right. The realism of Hanse's hole registers as a bit unimaginative.
But I have a hard time getting worked up about it because — confession time — I don't really care about TGL. I could barely make it through a single match in the first season. And this is not to say that the product is bad or that the people who enjoy it are rubes. It's just not for me. A huge part of what I love about golf is the relationship between the player, the course, and nature. When you strip away nature — the outdoors, the elements, the land — I lose most of my interest.
But what I'd like to hear Hanse address at some point is why he was interested in TGL. In a press release from the league, he said, "Starting with a relatively blank slate for TGL has been liberating. Designing holes for TGL has given us an opportunity to step out of our comfort zone and step into other aspects of golf course design in the virtual world."
As an architect who typically likes to derive inspiration from physical terrain, why was he compelled by the prospect of a "blank slate"? And in what sense did he stretch beyond his "comfort zone" here?
These are not passive-aggressive questions. I'd genuinely like to hear his answers.
Hey everyone. I thought it would be good to get this going for the NYC area. Always down to get out for a round and occasionally hit the sim in the winter. 31 married w/ no kids
Hey everyone. I thought it would be good to get this going for the NYC area. Always down to get out for a round and occasionally hit the sim in the winter. 31 married w/ no kids
Interested to see what Gil brings to the screen golf. I've only played two of Gil's courses, Sewanee and Mossy Oak, but like everyone, I've seen my fair share on TV and social media. Gil usually brings restraint and simplicity to his courses, with an emphasis on green complexes and their surroundings. Not exactly something you can implement in TGL.
Side note, is this a sign of things to come for a working partnership with the PGA Tour? I'd love to see Gil get his hands on a course or two. I know TGL and the Tour are separate, but in partnership with one another. One can dream.
Interested to see what Gil brings to the screen golf. I've only played two of Gil's courses, Sewanee and Mossy Oak, but like everyone, I've seen my fair share on TV and social media. Gil usually brings restraint and simplicity to his courses, with an emphasis on green complexes and their surroundings. Not exactly something you can implement in TGL.
Side note, is this a sign of things to come for a working partnership with the PGA Tour? I'd love to see Gil get his hands on a course or two. I know TGL and the Tour are separate, but in partnership with one another. One can dream.
I love sand based turf as much as everyone and understand the agronomy benefits. Who doesn't love blowouts and open/isolated spaces. That being said I kind of wish there would be a few new parkland style courses. Ones not suffocated by trees and housing, not restorations doing a bunch of removal, and not perimeter tree lined places where the trees don't really come into play. Would be interesting to see one of todays top teams have to route the land and trees without bulldozing the lot.
Maybe there are such places that have been built and I'm just not aware of them. (I know Sedge was kind of done this way but is still sand with no trees in play)
I love sand based turf as much as everyone and understand the agronomy benefits. Who doesn't love blowouts and open/isolated spaces. That being said I kind of wish there would be a few new parkland style courses. Ones not suffocated by trees and housing, not restorations doing a bunch of removal, and not perimeter tree lined places where the trees don't really come into play. Would be interesting to see one of todays top teams have to route the land and trees without bulldozing the lot.
Maybe there are such places that have been built and I'm just not aware of them. (I know Sedge was kind of done this way but is still sand with no trees in play)
Michael,
Great to hear that you and your cousin are going to get to experience Prairie Dunes. I would echo Sand Creek as being the best public 18 hole option close by. I always highly recommend contacting McPherson Country Club which is about 35 minutes north of PD. It is a 9 hole Perry Maxwell layout that is a lot of fun. It's private but they are known to be accommodating to visitors from out of the area with an email to the GM.
Another suggestion would be to check out some of the great small town honor box 9 holers in the area. Some of my favorites are Sterling Country Club, Hillsboro Municipal and Marion Country Club.
I am local to Hutchinson and have played PD many times so if you have any other questions or need other recommendations please let me know.
I just played it yesterday and it was one of the most fun rounds I've had in the past couple years. The staff were all super friendly, including the starter, Stan, who greeted me getting out of my car. He got me out with nobody starting 2 holes ahead or behind me, so I walked and had plenty of opportunities to hit some extra pitches and putts around the absolutely massive greens. Just a ton of fun to play and think about the different angles and possibilities for shots.
Totally agree with the 3rd and 10th greens being very dramatic. Definitely, take a look on 3 to see if the pin is in the front or back "punchbowl". If the pin is on the right side and you are in the wrong punchbowl you won't be able to get a first putt closer than ~20 feet.
Hey Guys!
For those of you that aren't on the app...
Unfortunately I have to reschedule the Thursday 6/4 alt shot meet up. Had a last minute cancelation from my babysitter so I lost my kid coverage for the evening. I'm truly sorry about having to cancel on such late notice.
Im looking to reschedule for Tuesday or Wednesday 6/9 or 6/10. I would be hosting at Old Natchez CC like originally planned.
Hope you can make it, and again, so sorry for the last minute cancelation.
Pat
Felt the need to update and say this was where I ended up playing. I could see how it was a prime facility in the early 2000s, but unfortunately the conditions were not great. Sounded like they had a tough winter and lost several greens... a few of which were very evident today. Definitely glad I made the trip and was able to get 18 in, but I can't say I have much of a desire to return.
On Koivun's putting...Saw Koivun for the first time when he was a freshman at the SEC fall preview in 2023. Was going against Sargent in the Championship Match. Sargent hit it to about 15 feet on the Par 3 11th. Koivun hit it about 60 feet short. Two-putting for Par was going to be a tough task on that green. Made the birdie putt, went on to win the match.
Played a couple of weeks ago - The greens are way bigger and the changes are readily apparent. You'll have a great day. There's some operational things that can be improved a bit, like no trash cans on the course I could find, and some native areas need some growing in, but the scale looks even more impressive with the tree clearing. In particular, the 3rd green, the 7th green, and the 10th green seemed way more complex after the renovation.
Underrated thing: The grilled chicken Caesar wrap at the restaurant was actually grilled on the grill and was amazing. Great option.
In my personal opinion, I think you should walk it, if you’re able to, for the full experience. It’s a big hike but hell that’s what they did in the 1920s. Outside of that just take it all in and enjoy the challenge.
Great content and terrific video. I especially like the details about how the Women's Open will demonstrate Riviera's more subtle design features. The low key / low ego and thoughtful approach of Meg and Mathew is also refreshing. Thank you!
A Course Transitioning To Walking And Hickory Clubs Only
May 31
Both walking and hickory. I see a road trip ahead once the three-year transition is complete. I'd have respected the decision for either by itself. Both together do make sense. Hoping to see more of both in the future. Even if the hickory collectors age out of the game.
Looking forward to finding out what I said, but I'm pretty sure I've had nothing but praise for Old Barnwell's shaping and varied sources of inspiration.
